Curse

Stockholm · Jul 25, 2006, 01:26 PM // 13:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by kvndoom

Until Anet threatens ebay with legal recourse, or otherwise makes them stop selling gold, there is simply no way the bots will go away.

There is a small problem with thats since no laws are broken, selling gold on e-bay is not against the law just against the EULA, so E-bay can not be held responsible. The gold and weapons trade on e-bay has to be solved by A-net them selfs. And account banning is the only thing they can legaly do.

lyra_song · Jul 25, 2006, 02:05 PM // 14:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phades

They could also just hardcap the minimum to what hp could get reduced to through dp and rune adjustment.Something in the 150-200hp range would be sufficient without totally obliterating existing balance for skills or a particular profession. Of course at certian points it would be "adventagous" under that setup to overuse superior runes at certain dp marks, but the couple bonus attribute points wouldnt make up for how vulnerable the character would be.

*This would be a rather large change to how deep wound currently functions though.

Though the bots themselves still need to be banned individually and continously until its far less prevelant than it is.

o_O a hardcap on how low health gets...

so...bad players who DP up wouldnt get punished for it?

Make the game easier some more?

Even then you can farm with more than just that type of build.

Theres sooooo many farming builds. -.-

Nerf the 55 at Elona. You end up with ViM trapper bots soloing elona? Or how about Earth Ele Tanks? or how about invinciwarrior builds?

Nerfing the build will not nerf the bots.

omny · Jul 25, 2006, 03:24 PM // 15:24

<rant>
Several posts in this threads look like they belong in a thread petitioning to nerf the 55HP monks. If your issue is with 55HP monks in general, please be honest about your agenda and post your opinion in the appropriate place.
While I agree that botting is a problem that should be dealt with, nerfing a popular farming build is not the solution.
</rant>

Amity and Truth · Jul 25, 2006, 03:59 PM // 15:59

In all honesty, this thread invokes the impression of being a downright Trolling Thread. There is no discussion and absolutely no topic to have a valid discussion on. It is however, the same old "Nerf 55" Suggestion in disguise as one can simply notice by reading the posts of the Threadstarter.
This however is known to lead towards Flamewars sooner or later and that is basically the future i'm predicting for this thread. It will be a flamewar real soon, it's just the only logical thing to follow yet another nerfcry mixed in with countless accusations geared towards a wide scope of players.

P.S.:
Someone thinking that Camera Positions affects Bots should not blatantly and downright rude call other people clueless.

P.P.S.:
Had some difficulties submitting this post, i hope it's not turning into a multipost -.-

Phades · Jul 25, 2006, 04:44 PM // 16:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by lyra_song

o_O a hardcap on how low health gets...

so...bad players who DP up wouldnt get punished for it?

umm base lv20 max hp penalty leaves you at 192hp, while the single superior attribute/health rune leaves 167. Did you even bother to check why i gave that range? From the top down it could be scaled, though I seriously doubt people even die much, if at all at the lower levels.

Quote:

Originally Posted by lyra_song

Nerf the 55 at Elona. You end up with ViM trapper bots soloing elona? Or how about Earth Ele Tanks? or how about invinciwarrior builds?

Nerfing the build will not nerf the bots.

One setup can be easily afked, while the others listed can not. Which makes for a easier bot setup, though by account forcing change would easily be a sign of who is botting vs who is not.

Actually a better observation would be, why are you trying to defend the build?

Xaero Gouki Kriegor · Jul 25, 2006, 04:48 PM // 16:48

Simple, Nerf the Area, let the bots be and just mess up their farming

Add a group of one of the folloing

http://gw.gamewikis.org/wiki/Sand_Giant

or

http://gw.gamewikis.org/wiki/Storm_Kin

or

http://gw.gamewikis.org/wiki/Jade_Scarab

I mean c'mon it aint that hard just add a group 2 groups of some these guys to patrol, they are desert critters, and 55ers dont like them much

, i mean its just like the UW 55 nerf, hell add a dying nightmare that appears then the minotaurs mobs are all agroed together, this will fix the problem, it isnt banning the bots but it will make them useless

Amy Awien · Jul 25, 2006, 05:05 PM // 17:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kaguya

Well they could toss the person a whisper first, wait for a reply, if nothing, ban them. They can always plead "I was AFK" to the support later to have their accounts banned.

A lot of annoyance and anger invoked, and a once satisfied customer who is now not going to buy the next ANet game and who is going to give ANet a bad name, even if just by complaining on forums.

Or worse, afterall banning == breach of contract. That might get costly, very costly. ANet will have to weigh that risc and it's potential costs against the costs incurred by botters.

Quote:

ANet shouldn't have any problems with banning people accidentally, it's not very long since ANet did the mass banning operation.

It might have cost them a small fortune in support costs, they wouldn't be very forthcoming about it.

Quote:

What it comes to "nerfing 55's", how people suggest that do be done? The skills involved work perfectly in the "indended" uses.

I don't know much about that build, but if a low 55 HP is important for that 10% of health damage limiter, then there are nature rituals such as Fertile Season and Symbiosis to increase the maximum health of those 55HP bots, Predatory Season to decrease the effect of healing, Primal Echoes to influence the usuability of Blessed Signet and finally, Nature's Renewal mess with enchantments.
Human farmers can improvise, bots can't.

lyra_song · Jul 25, 2006, 05:21 PM // 17:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phades

Actually a better observation would be, why are you trying to defend the build?

Because players enjoy it. A lot of players enjoy it. Legitimate gamers who buy multiple accounts. I myself would like to make a 55 in the future (my monk still needs to finish though), but right now im happy using my warrior to farm.

I think players should be allowed to farm. I think builds should be nerfed with respect to PvP balance. 55 monks are not used in PvP. The most you have are 55 FC air spikers, but thats for dodgeball.

I would like a solution to botting WITHOUT affecting real players as much as possible.

Thats my point.

Helll is for Heroes · Jul 25, 2006, 05:53 PM // 17:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by KurtBatz

chinese bot farmer accounts

please do not generalise all bot farmers to being chinese.

Dr Strangelove · Jul 25, 2006, 06:01 PM // 18:01

As far as nerfing the build, it's just a popular farming build. Nerf it and the bots will use one of many other farming builds, changing nothing. Like Lyra said, there's no imbalance in PvP because of it.

If you just go and ban all the Mo/W's in elona, you're bound to pick up a bunch of legitimate players. Don't give me that crap about being able to tell intrinsically. I've been there, and I know what the bots look like, and I also know there's no way to be 100% sure. As bad as bots are, they're not as bad as many legitimate players losing their account and never buying GW again.

Nerfing the area is a viable solution, but keep in mind it annoys real players to no end as well. Am I the only one who remembers the heart attacks many people had when griffons were nerfed?

If there was a simple solution to this, then the problem would already have been solved. As it is, it's a no-win situation for Anet.

|pyro| · Jul 25, 2006, 06:07 PM // 18:07

make the skill cap lvl 25 byby 55hp monk byby elonas bots

Hello happy ppl who wanted raised skillcap

shinrinningu · Jul 25, 2006, 08:17 PM // 20:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by KurtBatz

I wonder how many people ANet banned, that were using the Mo/W setup, that then cried 'foul play'?

If you use a broken build that exploits the game in a way that makes farming overly...................

I wouldn't be surprised about the "player profiling" they do but I wouldn't be happy about it if the suddenly ban me... just like many of those players who were wrongfully banned recently.

And you're saying such a thing is acceptable?

Quote:

Who said they need to 'spare a team' or pay a team just to do that?

I was sitting there for about ten, twenty minutes and I saw /dozens\ of Mo/W's botters popping up in that area. Look at the two screenshots earlier in the thread pl...................

You saw dozens of Mo/W's but how can you conclude that they are all bots? All I saw were the Mo/W tags. Your screenshots prove nothing. Like I said, you are suggesting "player profiling" which is neither morally right nor beneficial. It takes more than just twenty minutes to find out if all of those Mo/W's are bots or not and do you think this type of process wouldn't cost Anet money? I don't think so. And you're saying the area should be policed, who is Anet going to hire to do that and how is Anet going to compensate for their hard work? Team members and cash.

Quote:

Good money says most of those bans weren't overturned.

..and I stick by my guns closely when I say most of these botters are chinese gold farmers. They even use chinese names and chinese letters in their bot names - it's a known s..................

Good money says lots of those bans were overturned and it costed Anet good money. Good money says it angered the players and the players who weren't affected by it that CAN cost Anet potential good money. And I know how the gold farming sweatshop thing works. Never suggested you were playing by the race card. You're just suggesting player profiling.

Anyway... back to what I wanted to say. I agree that nerfing that area would work since it cuts off a big resource for those sweatshop farmers. And since the drops are usually crap, I don't see many players crying about not being able to farm there. As for raising the level cap? No thanks.

Since the issues of bots and how to get rid of them has been argued numerous of times before, this will be my last post in this thread.

Peace,
-Shin

Xaero Gouki Kriegor · Jul 25, 2006, 10:17 PM // 22:17

*cough*Dying Nightmares*cough*, i mean cmon just add that one lil creature to the beginning of that mission where the minotaurs collect and make him show up after the monk has gathered agro, PROBLEM SOLVED

Dr Strangelove · Jul 25, 2006, 11:15 PM // 23:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xaero Gouki Kriegor

*cough*Dying Nightmares*cough*, i mean cmon just add that one lil creature to the beginning of that mission where the minotaurs collect and make him show up after the monk has gathered agro, PROBLEM SOLVED

Seriously, why has Anet not added dying nightmares to every zone in the game? They could be our little buddies, popping up, rending and dying every 5 seconds. A whole new breed of dying nightmare farming would come out in which you just walked outside and wanded the 50 dying nightmares that spawned. Ah, good times.

lyra_song · Jul 25, 2006, 11:17 PM // 23:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xaero Gouki Kriegor

*cough*Dying Nightmares*cough*, i mean cmon just add that one lil creature to the beginning of that mission where the minotaurs collect and make him show up after the monk has gathered agro, PROBLEM SOLVED

spellbreaker. gg.

Taeka · Jul 26, 2006, 12:52 AM // 00:52

Just make some changes on the Rune:

o Minor - no HP deduction
o Major - minus 20 HP
o Superior - minus 30 HP

Phades · Jul 26, 2006, 01:35 AM // 01:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by lyra_song

Because players enjoy it. A lot of players enjoy it. Legitimate gamers who buy multiple accounts. I myself would like to make a 55 in the future (my monk still needs to finish though), but right now im happy using my warrior to farm.

Self interest ftw.

lyra_song · Jul 26, 2006, 02:27 AM // 02:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phades

Self interest ftw.

Of course i have self interest. I do play this game. But my self interests aside, I can adapt to nerfs. I can change my build and farming locations. And guess what....bot farmers can do the same.

I dont like bots. I think bots should be stopped. Killing the 55 build wont stop the bots. Killing Elona farming wont stop the bots. The OP's idea wont stop the bots.

The problem is not farming. The problem is bots.

This thread has degenerated into a "I hate 55s" thread, rather than a "Lets stop bots" thread, that the OP originally posted.

Quote:

Originally Posted by lyra_song

While i do agree that shutting down bots is on the list of Anet's things to do, i dont think a single person sitting there monitoring activity is the most efficient way to do things. That person could be devoted to actually helping people with direct problems.

I really think bot catching needs to be automated for efficiency. A bot should flag the accounts for a human to check their activity history later on.

Right now one of the best ways to stop a script is to use non-OCR confirmation systems. Sign up to a forum and you'll see what i mean. Its a box of text and numbers thats distorted so OCR software cant read it.

I posted the idea of something like that being implemented in game. Like a security thing before you can sell to a merch...or access storage.

Annoying. VERY. Stops bots? Maybe. Pisses off real players. Im sure it would.

Botting is effective because it is EFFICIENT. Time spent in town is not time spent farming. The more it forces a human touch to farm, the harder it will be for botters. If they cant be efficient, they cant make money. If they can't make money, they have to stop.

There we are on topic again.

Chris Blackstar · Jul 26, 2006, 02:47 AM // 02:47

Maybe a good solution to the problem, have a-net develop a program that accesses a characters account and looks for Bot program signatures. Make this program scanner a skill and allow it to be used in towns, then only allow trusted players as spys to go to towns and scan suspected violaters, if a bot program is detected, then the info would be transfered to a-net, and they can take appropate action. That I feel would be the best way to eliminate, if not discurage the problem with out effecting non Bot players who sometimes appear as bots.

superj76 · Jul 26, 2006, 03:09 AM // 03:09

I bet I know the reason why A-Net is doing nothing to these botters....Thats their income.....If they ban them, then they cause a buncha Chinese people and children to starve to death. Can't ya see the big picture... Have a heart.... Just 20g a month in inflation... so some Chinese people can eat.

lol